Discussion:
[Skim-app-users] Drawings by hand is not showing
r***@gmail.com
2015-11-05 13:26:15 UTC
Permalink
Hi 

Since I updated to OS10.11 handwritten notes disappear as soon as I lift the pen. They are registered because I can see them in the list of annotations but they don't show up in the document. Only while drawing can I see it. 


Text notes are fine. 


Any ideas what might be happening?


Best regards 
René Kramme 


(sendt fra min telefon)
Marc H. Scholl
2015-11-05 13:47:20 UTC
Permalink
I’ve observed a somewhat opposite behavior with my Bamboo tablet that I used to use for annotating presentations:

(But this might as well be a Bamboo driver problem in OS X 10.11, it occurred after the update to El Capitan): handwriting is not shown *while* I write; once I lift the pen - voila! it is shown (this happens in both, presentation and full-screen modes).

My workaround: I’ve ordered a new tablet that does have drivers for El Capitan. Hope the problem disappears with that one (not yet delivered, though).

Best
—Marc
Post by r***@gmail.com
Hi
Since I updated to OS10.11 handwritten notes disappear as soon as I lift the pen. They are registered because I can see them in the list of annotations but they don't show up in the document. Only while drawing can I see it.
Text notes are fine.
Any ideas what might be happening?
Best regards
René Kramme
(sendt fra min telefon)
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Christiaan Hofman
2015-11-05 21:20:13 UTC
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Post by Marc H. Scholl
(But this might as well be a Bamboo driver problem in OS X 10.11, it occurred after the update to El Capitan): handwriting is not shown *while* I write; once I lift the pen - voila! it is shown (this happens in both, presentation and full-screen modes).
My workaround: I’ve ordered a new tablet that does have drivers for El Capitan. Hope the problem disappears with that one (not yet delivered, though).
Best
—Marc
Post by r***@gmail.com
Hi
Since I updated to OS10.11 handwritten notes disappear as soon as I lift the pen. They are registered because I can see them in the list of annotations but they don't show up in the document. Only while drawing can I see it.
Text notes are fine.
Any ideas what might be happening?
Best regards
René Kramme
(sendt fra min telefon)
I am pretty sure this is a bug in 10.11.1. There were no problems reported on 10.11.0, but it occurred on 10.11.1 for various users. And nothing has changed in Skim with this part. I am not sure whether it’s a drawing problem of the notes itself, or a redrawing problem of the PDF. I have reported it as a bug to Apple, but they have as yet not reacted. I find it really strange though that the tablet behaves differently than the mouse, because they actually go through the exact same code path. Or is Marc using Skim 1.4.13 or earlier?

Christiaan


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Marc H. Scholl
2015-11-10 13:44:57 UTC
Permalink

 no, Marc is using Skim 1.4.15 (the behavior was observed using 1.4.14, I guess).
—Marc
I am pretty sure this is a bug in 10.11.1. There were no problems reported on 10.11.0, but it occurred on 10.11.1 for various users. And nothing has changed in Skim with this part. I am not sure whether it’s a drawing problem of the notes itself, or a redrawing problem of the PDF. I have reported it as a bug to Apple, but they have as yet not reacted. I find it really strange though that the tablet behaves differently than the mouse, because they actually go through the exact same code path. Or is Marc using Skim 1.4.13 or earlier?
Christiaan
Christiaan Hofman
2015-11-10 13:48:02 UTC
Permalink
… no, Marc is using Skim 1.4.15 (the behavior was observed using 1.4.14, I guess).
—Marc
Skim 1.4.15 did not change this, as it did not change your OS version, obviously.

Christiaan
Post by Christiaan Hofman
I am pretty sure this is a bug in 10.11.1. There were no problems reported on 10.11.0, but it occurred on 10.11.1 for various users. And nothing has changed in Skim with this part. I am not sure whether it’s a drawing problem of the notes itself, or a redrawing problem of the PDF. I have reported it as a bug to Apple, but they have as yet not reacted. I find it really strange though that the tablet behaves differently than the mouse, because they actually go through the exact same code path. Or is Marc using Skim 1.4.13 or earlier?
Christiaan
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Christiaan Hofman
2015-11-10 15:16:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christiaan Hofman
… no, Marc is using Skim 1.4.15 (the behavior was observed using 1.4.14, I guess).
—Marc
Skim 1.4.15 did not change this, as it did not change your OS version, obviously.
Christiaan
Are you sure you’re seeing this with 1.4.15, and 1.4.14? What you described really sounds more like the behavior of 1.4.13 or earlier on Mac OS 10.11.0. My understanding is that Skim 1.4.13 did not show the note on 10.11 during drawing, and 10.11.1 doesn’t display the note after drawing (or adding, if it’s e.g. a line note).

Christiaan
Post by Christiaan Hofman
Post by Christiaan Hofman
I am pretty sure this is a bug in 10.11.1. There were no problems reported on 10.11.0, but it occurred on 10.11.1 for various users. And nothing has changed in Skim with this part. I am not sure whether it’s a drawing problem of the notes itself, or a redrawing problem of the PDF. I have reported it as a bug to Apple, but they have as yet not reacted. I find it really strange though that the tablet behaves differently than the mouse, because they actually go through the exact same code path. Or is Marc using Skim 1.4.13 or earlier?
Christiaan
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Marc H. Scholl
2015-11-10 15:36:46 UTC
Permalink
Christian,

with 1.4.15 I can confirm the behavior others have observed: handwriting is shown during drawing and disappears as soon as I lift the pen. This works in standard and fulltext views.

The behavior I described earlier (for presentation mode) was really the opposite: I couldn’t see anything while drawing, but the freehand lines appeared as soon as I lifted the pen. I cannot reconstruct this, since I had played with the Wacom drivers (re-installed old ones, deleted them), so I currently have no working drivers installed for my old Bamboo tablet (yet drawing works in standard and fullscreen views, but NOT in presentation mode).

Still waiting for the new pen tablet that comes with El Capitan drivers

Best
—Marc
Post by Christiaan Hofman
Post by Marc H. Scholl

 no, Marc is using Skim 1.4.15 (the behavior was observed using 1.4.14, I guess).
—Marc
Skim 1.4.15 did not change this, as it did not change your OS version, obviously.
Christiaan
Are you sure you’re seeing this with 1.4.15, and 1.4.14? What you described really sounds more like the behavior of 1.4.13 or earlier on Mac OS 10.11.0. My understanding is that Skim 1.4.13 did not show the note on 10.11 during drawing, and 10.11.1 doesn’t display the note after drawing (or adding, if it’s e.g. a line note).
Christiaan
Post by Christiaan Hofman
Post by Marc H. Scholl
I am pretty sure this is a bug in 10.11.1. There were no problems reported on 10.11.0, but it occurred on 10.11.1 for various users. And nothing has changed in Skim with this part. I am not sure whether it’s a drawing problem of the notes itself, or a redrawing problem of the PDF. I have reported it as a bug to Apple, but they have as yet not reacted. I find it really strange though that the tablet behaves differently than the mouse, because they actually go through the exact same code path. Or is Marc using Skim 1.4.13 or earlier?
Christiaan
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Marc H. Scholl
2015-11-10 19:31:06 UTC
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Christian,

I just had a chance to test a different Wacom tablet (Intuos), for which El Capitan drivers *are* available. Unfortunately for me, it does not appear to be a driver problem at all!

Mac OS X 10.11.1, Skim 1.4.14 and the effects are:

1. drawing (freehand) in either of standard or fullscreen views: line are shown while drawing, disappear as soon as pen is lifted from the tablet

2. drawing in presentation mode: drawing is not working at all (nothing shown, no anotations added)

Point 2 is particularly bad, since I was using freehand anotations a lot in my lectures.

In addition: what I noticed in scenario 1: when I draw quite a bit without lifting the pen, some fragements—not necessarily contiguous ones—of the line will stay visible once I finally lift the pen (possibly the line fragments have been shifted on the paper, I’m not sure). It doesn’t seem to be reproducible when that happens and what parts remain visible
. Strange!

And btw: same behavior, if I use the magic trackpad to draw.

Cheers
—Marc
Post by Marc H. Scholl
Christian,
with 1.4.15 I can confirm the behavior others have observed: handwriting is shown during drawing and disappears as soon as I lift the pen. This works in standard and fulltext views.
The behavior I described earlier (for presentation mode) was really the opposite: I couldn’t see anything while drawing, but the freehand lines appeared as soon as I lifted the pen. I cannot reconstruct this, since I had played with the Wacom drivers (re-installed old ones, deleted them), so I currently have no working drivers installed for my old Bamboo tablet (yet drawing works in standard and fullscreen views, but NOT in presentation mode).
Still waiting for the new pen tablet that comes with El Capitan drivers

Best
—Marc
Post by Christiaan Hofman
Post by Marc H. Scholl

 no, Marc is using Skim 1.4.15 (the behavior was observed using 1.4.14, I guess).
—Marc
Skim 1.4.15 did not change this, as it did not change your OS version, obviously.
Christiaan
Are you sure you’re seeing this with 1.4.15, and 1.4.14? What you described really sounds more like the behavior of 1.4.13 or earlier on Mac OS 10.11.0. My understanding is that Skim 1.4.13 did not show the note on 10.11 during drawing, and 10.11.1 doesn’t display the note after drawing (or adding, if it’s e.g. a line note).
Christiaan
Post by Christiaan Hofman
Post by Marc H. Scholl
I am pretty sure this is a bug in 10.11.1. There were no problems reported on 10.11.0, but it occurred on 10.11.1 for various users. And nothing has changed in Skim with this part. I am not sure whether it’s a drawing problem of the notes itself, or a redrawing problem of the PDF. I have reported it as a bug to Apple, but they have as yet not reacted. I find it really strange though that the tablet behaves differently than the mouse, because they actually go through the exact same code path. Or is Marc using Skim 1.4.13 or earlier?
Christiaan
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--
| Prof. Dr. Marc H. Scholl
|
| Universitaet Konstanz
| FB Informatik & Informationswissenschaft
| D-78457 Konstanz, Germany
| Tel: +49 (0)7531/88-4432, Fax: +49 (0)7531/88-3577
| http://dbis.uni-konstanz.de
Christiaan Hofman
2015-11-10 20:01:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marc H. Scholl
Christian,
I just had a chance to test a different Wacom tablet (Intuos), for which El Capitan drivers *are* available. Unfortunately for me, it does not appear to be a driver problem at all!
That was not to be expected, because, as I said, tablet and mouse events are handled exactly the same (the system just packages tablet events as mouse events, which is what we receive). The only difference is Presentation mode, where we only handle them when they’re coming from the tablet.
Post by Marc H. Scholl
1. drawing (freehand) in either of standard or fullscreen views: line are shown while drawing, disappear as soon as pen is lifted from the tablet
As I said, this must be the system. We only draw something during the drawing itself, which is working. After that, we add the actual note, after which it is the system’s responsibility to do the display of the note. So if it doesn’t do that, as I said, it’s a bug in the system. Hopefully Apple will fix this in 10.11.2 (they did do this right in 10.11.0, if I understand this correctly).
Post by Marc H. Scholl
2. drawing in presentation mode: drawing is not working at all (nothing shown, no anotations added)
Is the note also not there after you go back to normal window mode (look in the note table)? I think I may know what goes wrong, at least during the drawing (afterwards, it would be the same as above). To test this, could you try to set the SKUseNormalLevelForPresentation hidden pref (See the Wiki)? To do this write the following in Terminal.app (while Skim is not running) and hit Enter:

defaults write -app Skim SKUseNormalLevelForPresentation -bool true

Does the line show after that (at least during drawing)?

You can reset this hidden pref afterwards using “defaults delete -app Skim SKUseNormalLevelForPresentation”.
Post by Marc H. Scholl
Point 2 is particularly bad, since I was using freehand anotations a lot in my lectures.
In addition: what I noticed in scenario 1: when I draw quite a bit without lifting the pen, some fragements—not necessarily contiguous ones—of the line will stay visible once I finally lift the pen (possibly the line fragments have been shifted on the paper, I’m not sure). It doesn’t seem to be reproducible when that happens and what parts remain visible
. Strange!
And btw: same behavior, if I use the magic trackpad to draw.
Cheers
—Marc
This is weird. This may indicate that PDFKit does draw the notes, or at least attempts to, but messes up the coordinate systems when it draws lines in the notes (they seem to fail for all notes that consist of lines). This actually makes a bit of “sense”, as the also mess up the coordinate transformations on El Cap when copying parts of the PDF (which we had to work around), and for notes that are drawn on rotated pages. So this may just be another case of that same bug (or the same Apple developer with a bad sense of direction).

Christiaan
Post by Marc H. Scholl
Post by Marc H. Scholl
Christian,
with 1.4.15 I can confirm the behavior others have observed: handwriting is shown during drawing and disappears as soon as I lift the pen. This works in standard and fulltext views.
The behavior I described earlier (for presentation mode) was really the opposite: I couldn’t see anything while drawing, but the freehand lines appeared as soon as I lifted the pen. I cannot reconstruct this, since I had played with the Wacom drivers (re-installed old ones, deleted them), so I currently have no working drivers installed for my old Bamboo tablet (yet drawing works in standard and fullscreen views, but NOT in presentation mode).
Still waiting for the new pen tablet that comes with El Capitan drivers

Best
—Marc
Post by Christiaan Hofman
Post by Marc H. Scholl

 no, Marc is using Skim 1.4.15 (the behavior was observed using 1.4.14, I guess).
—Marc
Skim 1.4.15 did not change this, as it did not change your OS version, obviously.
Christiaan
Are you sure you’re seeing this with 1.4.15, and 1.4.14? What you described really sounds more like the behavior of 1.4.13 or earlier on Mac OS 10.11.0. My understanding is that Skim 1.4.13 did not show the note on 10.11 during drawing, and 10.11.1 doesn’t display the note after drawing (or adding, if it’s e.g. a line note).
Christiaan
Post by Christiaan Hofman
Post by Marc H. Scholl
I am pretty sure this is a bug in 10.11.1. There were no problems reported on 10.11.0, but it occurred on 10.11.1 for various users. And nothing has changed in Skim with this part. I am not sure whether it’s a drawing problem of the notes itself, or a redrawing problem of the PDF. I have reported it as a bug to Apple, but they have as yet not reacted. I find it really strange though that the tablet behaves differently than the mouse, because they actually go through the exact same code path. Or is Marc using Skim 1.4.13 or earlier?
Christiaan
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Skim-app-users mailing list
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--
| Prof. Dr. Marc H. Scholl
|
| Universitaet Konstanz
| FB Informatik & Informationswissenschaft
| D-78457 Konstanz, Germany
| Tel: +49 (0)7531/88-4432, Fax: +49 (0)7531/88-3577
| http://dbis.uni-konstanz.de <http://dbis.uni-konstanz.de/>
Josee Desharnais
2016-06-12 17:34:01 UTC
Permalink
I have SKIM 1.4.19 (93) OS 10.11.5

lines (arrows) do not appear at all
behaviour described in the top message happens too.

It was ok a few weeks or months ago.
Christiaan Hofman
2016-06-12 21:56:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Josee Desharnais
I have SKIM 1.4.19 (93) OS 10.11.5
lines (arrows) do not appear at all
behaviour described in the top message happens too.
It was ok a few weeks or months ago.
Yes, that seems correct. Apple lied to me that they fixed this. But apparently they “fixed” it by doing it wrong in a slightly different way.

Christiaan

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